Verbatim part 2: Keith grills Inspector General

Inspector general of police Kakoma Kanganja speaks to journalist at Police Headquarters-picture by Tenson Mkhala

CONTINUED FROM YESTERDAY

Keith: That’s not hearsay. And the operation order was availed to you right?

IG: correct your honor

Keith: And since you are in charge of giving command and directive and you superintend, is it you who told Mr Lungu that that convoy of the UPND president should not be on the road?

IG: No, the commissioner decides as to the situation on the ground your honour

Keith: Where is this operation order today?

IG: if the court wishes, it will be made available your honour

Keith: permission to approach the witness with a document (hands it over).You know Mr Amos Chanda don’t you?

IG: I do your honour

Keith: how do you know him?

IG: he is the Special Assistant to the President for Press and Public Relations.

Keith: I am showing he witness unmarked documents. A statement from Mr Amos Chanda and a newspaper supporting the same. Read the statement

IG: “Route lining was done. HH passed major check points in good time but slowed down so Eagle One can find him on the way which happened. We had two options: to slow down and allow to reach Limulunga or to bump him off and create some scene of sorts which is what he wanted. A decision was made to by pass him and in our mind we were clear non danger was posed to H.E unless HH himself would ram his car into Eagle One. A split second decision would be made to prevent that cause at that stage any movable object in motion or stationery is constantly on target from some close range, which is why it was spectacularly foolish for HH and his minders to place themselves into that real and eminent danger.

Keith: Good, don’t forget, the President’s life was not in danger according to Amos Chanda. Look at the Newspaper, what is the date?

IG: It is Monday 10th April 2017

Keith: Daily Nation Newspaper right?

IG: correct your honour

Keith: Issue number?

IG: 1633 your honour

Keith: What’s that headline?

IG: HH blocked Presidential motorcade

Keith: Read the story

IG: (reads story derived from Amos Chanda’s statement above)

Keith: the State House police protocol was route lining according to this statement right? So there’s no doubt whatsoever that the UPND president and his entourage were authorized to be on the road according to what you have read, correct?

IG: correct

K: you have never issued any statement to disagree with Amos that the UPND president was not authorized to be on that road have you?

IG: I have not, if you read further between the lines your honour, there was a purpose

Keith: No! don’t volunteer answers. I haven’t asked about the purpose.

IG: I need to expand

Keith: no, you don’t just answer the question

Magistrate: Witness just answer the question

IG: I have not issued any statement

Keith: Your commissioner of police is saying he was not authorized, the man in charge at State House who actually speaks what the President was desires is saying he was authorized

IG: he was not authorized at that particular time, not at that time when Eagle One was in enroute, no one is supposed to be on the route

Keith: That was not the question. The truth is that contrary to what you are saying, he was authorized correct?

IG: he was authorized initially, correct

Keith: so the debrief from your police commissioner was a lie?

IG: it was not a lie.

Keith: so if he was authorized, you had a duty to stop the President’s motorcade so that it doesn’t come from behind not so?

IG: the President’s motorcade takes precedence. Once it starts moving everyone else must be off the road

Keith: so you are telling us different statements. And now your statement is that he was authorized to be on the road right?

IG: at the time the President got on the route, he was not authorized, that’s what I was referring to.

Keith: No, we are not

State prosecutor: Your honour we want to respond to that point, we would like to object…

Haimbe: Your honour he used the word respond, there is no such procedure your honour. He can’t respond to the cross examination, there is no such procedure. And that is why I stood but sat down when I noticed he corrected himself.
State prosecutor: Your honour we feel it is not the way to go

Magistrate: reasons?

State prosecutor: I have forgotten

(laughter in court)

Haimbe: allow us to laugh your honour

Magistrate: Counsel is at liberty, this is the only chance he has to give evidence

Keith: So it was your duty not to allow the Presidential motorcade to start off until the road was clear?

IG: No your honour, it is never like that, the President takes precedence in all matters in the country

Keith: What is your authority for that?

IG: Your honour State Security gives those details

Keith: What is your authority for that?

IG: those are state security matters

Keith: You are speaking authoritatively, what is your authority for that?

IG: it is common knowledge that when the Presidential motorcade is on the road, a siren like that one you are hearing, you bump off the road!

Keith: what siren?

IG: your honour the siren that I heard outside. You pack off the road whether it is a police ambulance or fire brigade, it is an international standard.

Keith: That’s why my question stands, what’s your authority?

IG: These are standards put in presidential protection your honour

Keith: and we want that same standard, in what document?

IG: it is general practice

Keith: there must be documents stipulating

IG: I know my learned counsel is looking at the law, but there are practices which give details of the operations of the State. State machinery operates differently even without the legal guidance your honour

Keith: So in short you are saying you are allowed to act outside the law?

IG: within the law your honour to protect the Head of State the state machinery can act in a certain manner.

Keith: and the President himself, through his spokesperson said his life was not in danger not so?

IG: I can’t comment on that one your honour because it is not me who produced that statement.

Keith: Okay, I will still get what I want. You give the President intelligence reports don’t you?

IG: I cannot comment on that one.

Keith: You will, because there is a chain of communication. I am not asking you to disclose the contents, we won’t go there, we are simply saying you do provide briefings to the President not so?

IG: I do provide briefings to the Presdient

Keith: Yes, that’s a fact. And this is on a daily basis?

IG: on a daily basis your honour

Keith: and he himself is saying he was not in danger?

IG: I am not privy to that

Magistrate: You see why I guided to restrict yourselves to the matter before court. The way you are coming out as if now we are in treason, limit yourself to the issue of libel

Keith: the indictment has treason in it

Magistrate: But this is not a treason trial

Keith: Yes, but it is inevitable, we haven’t even gone a quarter way, we still have long with this witness. I am restraining myself from appearing to be giving evidence to the bar that’s why I am struggling a bit

Magistrate: Stick to the matter before court otherwise we don’t want to start trying a matter that is before the High Court

Keith: your worship, the President briefs the President on a daily basis and the Presidential spokesperson is the mind of the President so I am trying to show the witness that that President was not in danger in any way and the statement from the police, which he read earlier, said he put the life of the President in danger, that’s where I am going. I want to show inefficiency on the part of the police. I am trying to prove inefficiency and incompetence

Magistrate: Proceed

Keith: We are requesting this audio be played (hands over CD to court marshal for set up). So the President said his life was not in danger and you are saying it was in danger. The President was there and you were not right?

IG: I was not there but he was

Keith: So the issue of danger is best told by him and not you correct?

IG: correct your honour

Keith: (Plays audio of Amos and IG phone conversation) Okay, you are now looking at a Daily Nation Newspaper correct?

IG: correct your honour

Keith: Date and issue number?

IG: 15th April, 2017 issue number 1638

Keith: Headline?

IG: Police probe Kanganja secret recording

K: you can read

IG: “The tapping of a private conversation between Inspector General of Police Kakoma Kanganja and the Special Assistant to the President for Press and Public Relations Amos Chanda is the subject of intensive investigation by police to verify the origin on the recording. On Friday, UPND vice-president GBM during a press briefing alluded to the fact that the party had inside information of the recording between State House and police which led the arrest of Hakainde Hichilema through President Edgar Lungu’s press aide citing a recording to prove police were working under instructions. Zambia Police Spokesperson Esther Katongo said they have already instituted investigations into the origin of the recording circulating on social media. She said the recording was a revelation that some people have gained illegal access and are listening in to private conversations without authorization. She explained that although the recording was from an old conversation from last year, there was need for the…”

Keith: Okay, that’s okay. I just wanted to lay a foundation. The audio that we have played and the Daily Nation newspaper where your spokesperson is talking is the same incident right?

IG: correct

K: and you are the one in that recording talking on phone with Mr Amos Chanda not so?

IG: I am not the one that’s why there’s that investigation

Keith: do you know the other person?

IG: no, I am not privy to that recording

Keith: who is the IG being referred to by Esther Mwaata Katongo talking about that recording?

IG: the Inspector General of Police Kakoma Kanganja

Keith: and who is that?

IG: That’s me

Keith: And the person in the audio is you correct? You want us to play it again?

IG: it is not me your honour, it is just a reference but it is not me that’s why there is that investigation

Keith: which has not borne any fruits to this day?

IG: Well, we are yet to make an arrest

Keith: You are on oath and this is very clear

IG: That is not factual your honour

Keith: So, If you do not know and you are trying to dispute something which is straight forward

IG: It is not straight forward, that is malicious actually. It is not on record

Keith: I haven’t finished the question. Please play the audio again (Audio is replayed) okay, so during this same period, it is a fact that your service arrested Mr GBM correct?

IG: I wouldn’t know the period when that was recorded

Keith: The newspaper, what is it saying?

IG: The newspaper is not a fact, is it a fact?

Keith: he says “hi IG”. Who is the IG in this country?

IG: that is just a fabrication

Keith: Who is the IG in this country?

IG: there is no mention of my name in that recording

Keith: Who is the IG in this country?

IG: I am the IG your honour

Gilbert: Your honour this is a procedural issue. The colleagues on my right hand side are consistently mouthing statements to the witness on stand. I think that perhaps they need to be guided.

State prosecutor: It would have been better for him to be specific instead of smearing all of us here.

Gilbert: I think he agrees with me that the others are mouthing. I am seated next to him and I can vouch for the fact that he is not doing it. Out of respect, I am saying on my right, the State is consistently mouthing answers and the witness himself is fixing his eyes on them

Magistrate: Witness, fix your eyes to the court as you speak. It is misconduct to behave like that when the witness is testifying. So you are warned to behave yourselves.

Keith: Mr Kanganja, your investigation of that recording has got nothing to do with investigating people who are talking but your investigation is trying to find out or to establish who recorded, that is what your investigation is centered on not so?

IG: No your honour

Keith: Please give him [newspaper] again to read. It is your own spokesperson. And remember we have that statement; it is not just the newspaper so just answer. Read the first paragraph

IG: (reads first paragraph of Daily Nation story)

Keith: so it is very clear your investigation is to identify the people who recorded your secret conversation?

IG: The investigation is about the origin, it is very clear your honour

Keith: we will still get what we want and I am still on the same question.

IG: you are welcome your honour

Keith: You are trying to investigate the origins of the question correct?

IG: the perceived recording

Keith: No! we will read it again. Read paragraph one again

IG: I have already answered

Gilbert: is the witness saying he will not answer questions in this court? Did I hear right?

Magistrate: Witness, before this court you are a witness so you need to forget about your position and remember that you are a witness before court. And answer the questions as they come to you

Keith: Read it again

IG: (reads story again)

Keith: yes, so the investigation is centered on the recording of the conversation between you and Amos Chanda correct?

IG: not correct

Keith: What you have read here is that according to your spokesperson, the origin of the recording between you and Amos is what is being investigated not so?

IG: the purported recording. Your honour it could be just the wording of the statement there.

Keith: I will not leave it, the word purported does not appear anywhere does it?

IG: it is not me who wrote that

Keith: and I am not asking who wrote

IG: then my answer remains the same

Keith: you will read it again, read.

(State objects and Magistrate asks Keith to move on)

Keith: Okay, the word purported does not exist there does it?

IG: (silence)

Magistrate: (repeats Keith’s question)

IG: no it doesn’t your honour

Keith: So according to your spokesperson, it is…

IG: Yes, according to the spokesperson not me, I am the person standing here

Keith: the spokesperson speaks with your authority sir not so?

IG: the spokesperson does not speak under my authority

Keith: Okay, we will record that. So that statement is not a reflection of what the police service is all about correct? Since she does not speak with your authority?

IG: it could be a misinterpretation of facts in that statement your honour.

Keith: you are expressing shadows of doubt

IG: because it is not done by me your honour, unless you have a statement by Mrs Katongo before court and not a paper which doesn’t even belong to Zambia Police

Keith: don’t worry, just keep calm

IG: I am very calm, I am used to this, 33 years of experience

Keith: There was a press briefing addressed by your spokesperson correct?

IG: I am not aware

Keith: ah, good. Remember we are on inefficiency and incompetence. So you are not aware that your spokesperson had a press briefing? Very good, thank you. What does that say about your efficiency?

IG: I am very professional, I am very efficient, if I wasn’t, I wouldn’t be standing here today your honour

Keith: you are very efficient and you do not know that your spokesperson had a press briefing on that. So your investigation on the same, have you caught the people who secretly recorded you with Mr Amos Chanda?

IG: Your honour, the matter is under investigation

Keith: that is not my question

IG: your honour the matter is still under investigation

Keith: answer please

IG: there hasn’t been anyone caught but the matter is under investigation

Keith: That recording, how many months have passed?

IG: investigations take even 20 years your honour

Keith: That’s the problem with this witness your honour, he is not answering the questions. The court has guided several times

Magistrate: Witness you just answer the question

IG: correct your honour

Keith: it is over three months right?

IG: correct your honour and we are still investigating

Keith: and you have not given the nation an update?

IG: Not at all but at an optune time, we will give them.

Keith: No, do not volunteer answers. And in that conversation, it is talking about the arrest of the UPND vice-president Mr GBM, it is the fact that you arrested Mr GBM on account of a statement when he said he was going to go for the President’s throat not so?

IG: correct your honour

Keith: and it is also a fact that you denied him bond and kept him in custody over that long weekend correct?

IG: He was in custody your honour, courts do not operate over the weekend your honour.

Keith: No, the court has advised you. You refused to give him police bond over a misdemeanor not so?

IG: yes your honour, it was not under my jurisdiction

Keith: no, you are not asking the questions. Remember, you are the number one police officer

IG: number one for sure your honour, law abiding

Keith: we will find out and that matter is still in court today you are aware?

IG: I am aware your honour

Keith: and in that conversation, the speakers, the one who is being referred to as IG is acknowledging the fact that he was not given police bond right?

IG: according to that conversation your honour, yes

Keith: and the IG in that recording is also agreeing that you are not a police service but a police force correct?

IG: I didn’t hear that

Keith: you can play it again that forget about service, you are a police force, not that woman who was there

IG: that was someone else

(audio is played again)

Keith: it is a fact that the arrest of GBM was on account of the same issue of the throat, that he would go for the throat of the President right?

IG: Yes, and that is under a competent court elsewhere

(audio plays again)

Keith: the IG before you was a lady wasn’t she?

IG: correct your honour

Keith: her name was Stella Libongani not so

IG: correct

Keith: so to that extent, this fact tallies with the audio right?

IG: there was a lady IG your honour, correct

Keith: and the speaker is acknowledging that you are a force, not a service, I put it to you that your service is not a force, would you agree?

IG: it is a service your honour

(audio plays again)

Keith: you speak to Mr Amos Chanda often not so?

IG: no, not regularly. I don’t report to him

Keith: you are volunteering answers. But at least you do talk to him?

IG: yes, if we meet like the way I’m talking to you.

Keith: and you are very much familiar with his voice?

IG: I am not familiar your honour

Keith: But you are familiar with your own voice aren’t you?

IG: I can’t, I can’t your honor.
(laughter in court)
Keith: You can’t what?

IG: I am not familiar because like this, I have got a cough.

(more laughter, marshal calls for silence)

Keith: so on who’s authority was your spokesperson addressing the nation on the recording between you and Amos Chanda?

IG: I wouldn’t know because there is no statement in court to show that it was her statement

Keith: is it your testimony that you are not aware that your spokesperson addressed the press on this issue?

IG: I am not aware your honour, that’s my testimony

Keith: we are on incompetence and inefficiency. So if it turns out that indeed, she held that press briefing and you are not aware, then it means things are done behind your back as IG not so?

IG: I am not always in the office.

Keith: Answer the question, it simply means that your spokesperson is addressing the nation without your authority correct?

IG: she normally informs me whenever she’s doing that and I give her authority to do that

Keith: Do you understand my question? What was my question?

IG: The question was that am I aware that she held a press briefing without my knowledge? I always give her authority to do that.

Keith: if you are not aware she addressed the nation over this recording, then it means that things are done without your knowledge right?

IG: not at all, things cannot be done behind my back

Keith: if we establish in this court that your spokesperson actually addressed the nation on this issue, and you say you are not aware, that will be an act of inefficiency on your part

IG: it wouldn’t be, depending on the circumstance your honour

Keith: I put it to you that everything that happens within the police service and for the spokesperson to speak, you must authorize, do you disagree?

IG: I agree with you

Keith: And you as police, you are not authorized to act on the basis of being instructed by political forces not so?

IG: correct

Keith: that conversation, the voice of that IG is saying that was the plan to keep him in custody over the long weekend . You heard that component?

IG: yes

Keith: so clearly, the IG in that conversation, remember, Amos says his boss asked him and that he was getting a brief from the Secretary General. The IG clearly was being told that that person shouldn’t be released and the IG responded by saying that was the plan correct?

IG: That is what is in that purported recording your honour

Keith: It is a fact, that recording exists, it is not a purported recording

IG: Your honour, people will be arrested, those who are circulating this same one will be dealt with

Keith: Oh, the witness is threatening to arrest people who are circulating that. Under what authority are you going to use to arrest people? Because this issue is in public domain, I can even, do you have a phone there with internet bundles?

IG: I don’t have, I am very poor your honour

Keith: You can’t talk about arresting people when that issue is in public domain

IG: your honour there was warning whoever circulates will be arrested

Keith: You are threatening the citizens of this country?

IG: it is not a threat, people have to be protected

Keith: who? Which people?

IG: Like me

Keith: So it is your recording, you are admitting

IG: No your honour

(laughter in court)

Keith: You go on all these websites, Youtube, ZNBC, Diggers News, Watchdog, Muvi TV, even on ZICTA website, are you going to arrest these people?

IG: your honour that’s the line of investigation, we will get back to the source

Keith: and what are you going to charge them with?

IG: we will be guided by the legal minds your honour

Keith: so you are telling this court that you ignore freedom of expression?

IG: There’s a limit to everything, even under that article there is a limit

Keith: People have the right to express themselves right?

IG: correct

Keith: and so does the accused person have that right?

IG: everyone has that right

Keith: including the accused?

IG: correct, that is why we are here

Keith: you have never disciplined Esther Mwaata Katongo for that coverage not so?

IG: some of these papers I am only seeing them today. Otherwise I’d have taken appropriate action

Keith: If she says something to the nation without your knowledge and approval, you are supposed to discipline her right?

IG: I take appropriate action your honour

Keith: so the fact that you did not means that the statement had your authority not so?

IG: I am seeing it today

Keith: I am interested in inefficiency. So, as far as you are concerned, it is the first time in this court that you have come to be aware that Esther Mwaata Katongo addressed the nation on the conversation between you and Amos Chanda?

IG: correct

Keith: but you agree with me that your office is only investigating this matter because it is aware of the recording?

IG: I am aware

Keith: read the paragraph on page four

IG: (reads story again)

Keith: so according to what you have read, Esther Mwaata Katongo is saying this is an old conversation referring to GBM’s arrest not so?

IG: it is not referring to me, it is referring to the contents of that recording

Keith: your spokesperson is very categorical in talking about the recording between you and the Presidential spokesperson, she is very clear

IG: that is Esther Katongo, not Kanganja

Keith: you are the IG, Esther is referring to your office and actually mentions your name not so?

State prosecutor: Objection your honour. On the statement by the spokesperson, he has already said that she did it without his authority. Now the counsel is just going round and round to solicit an answer from the witness who has already answered.

Magistrate: You heard the line of the questioning? That in the statement she referred to him, there is nothing wrong with counsel

Keith: so the fact that she mentions you by name and office, it simply means that for her to mention your office and name, it means you authorized her to address the nation ok that recording not so?

IG: your honour I have already answered

K: but at least we have agreed on one point, there is nowhere in that story where your spokesperson is disputing the conversation by saying this is not the IG and Amos Chanda

IG: I cannot answer for her.

Keith: That is not the question.

IG: confirm that she gave that statement

K: that’s not what I am asking (repeats question), it is categorical it is you and Amos Chanda..

IG: it is not categorical

K: show me a part where she has disputed

IG: there is nothing here as she is not the author of this article

Keith: so your answer is that there is no where where she disputes?

IG: there is nowhere because she is not the author of this.

Keith: But are you aware of any other report where police have refuted?

IG: your honour I cannot comment on that

Keith: Okay. We will twist it the other way. When something is wrongly reported, you do take action, you do refute it if it is not correct not so?

IG: correct

Keith: to date have you summoned any newspapers to get a retraction or tell them that what they produced was fake?

IG: no, we have not

State prosecutor: Your honour, maybe the witness can be allowed to sit since this session has been long now

IG: no your honour, I will remain standing

Keith: from what you have read, Katongo did not dismiss the recording as fake not so?

IG: there is nothing like that here

Keith: yes, all that is being alluded to is the fact that they are going to investigate the origin

IG: correct

K: the indictment says inefficiency, you were trying to cover your inefficiency, so who issued the operation order on the UPND president’s arrest?

IG: in my evidence in chief

Keith: I am not asking about the evidence in chief, I just wanted to know, who issued the operation order?

IG: there are two aspects so I wanted to lay ground, for the operations in Mongu, it is the commissioner in charge

Keith: okay let me break it down, who issued the operation order on the Mongu incident?

IG: the operation order comes from the commissioner of police for Western Mr Charles Lungu

Keith: and you approved it?

IG: I approved it with amendments

Keith: what about the operation order at the UPND president’s house?

IG: that falls under the director of the CID Mr Webby Shula, director criminal investigations department

Keith: He is in this court, he is a humble citizen of this country and coincidentally, your spokesperson is also in this court, madam humble Esther Mwaata Katongo

IG: correct

Keith: and that (raid at HH’s house) was also done with your approval correct?

IG: Correct

Keith: it is a fact that the police who had a duty to clear the way long before the President arrived did not do so right

IG: They did so

Keith: Permission to view a video of the Mongu incident so that we are shown where there police were

(Mongu incident video plays)

Keith: you had the benefit of looking at footage of the Mongu incident right?

IG: no your honour

Keith: Okay, so you don’t know what it is all about?

IG: I don’t know your honour

Keith: (gives IG statement he issued after Mongu incident) read that

IG: “I wish to reiterate that actions by the opposition leader were unreasonable, reckless and criminal”

Keith: Who’s statement is that?

IG: this is my statement to the nation on 12th April

Keith: have you ever at any point addressed the nation to the effect that you saw the footage?

IG: not at all

K: and you are telling the nation that you analysed what transpired in Mongu?

IG: correct

Keith: what tools were you using to analyse?

IG: this was from the breifs I was receiving from the people on the ground

K: I knew you would answer like that. From the footage you have seen, there are no police officers there not so?

IG: I can’t comment, I haven’t seen

Keith: Okay, since you are unable to see, we will come back to it when we get a longer version of the video so let’s proceed. You said in examination in chief that you received calls from a cross section of society, you are the head of police right?

IG: correct

Keith: and Mumbi Phiri directed you, do you remember this document which you read? She singled you out and was saying you should arrest HH and charge him with treason right?

IG: your honour, I already answered that question when it was

Keith: yes, earlier you has answered but I had said police. Now I am saying she singled you out and said it was up to the appointing authority to deal with you but you were very unprofessional

IG: correct

Keith: But you have not complained and brought her to court have you?

IG: your honour, when the question was put forward to me

Keith: No, answer the question. You have not

IG: No, I have not

Keith: and she goes further to say there was lapse on the part of police right?

IG: that’s what she said in that statement your honour

Keith: At this point, the UPND president was not arrested right?

IG: correct

Keith: But there was pressure building up from members of a political party building up to charge with treason

IG: correct, that is why in my response I said ‘I am not a coward’

Keith: no, you have already answered. Again, leave that in your mind, I will come back to it. Your own statement in evidence in chief, you said people were still calling you about this post. Name at least five people who called you as a result of ID1.

IG: that question was already answered in cross examination so I am not going to answer it

Magistrate: That time the accused had no lawyer and this time his lawyers are picking it up so answer the question

IG: the names are in the papers

Keith: (repeats question)

IG: I can’t remember but it is there

Keith: where?

IG: the papers you were showing to me

Keith: So Mumbi Phiri called you?

IG: correct

Keith: that you should resign. On phone right?

IG: No your honour, in person

Keith: my question was name the people who called you

IG: it could be in person or on phone

Keith: so Mumbi Phiri called you and asked you to resign, and this is a party functionary, deputy secretary general of the PF right?

IG: correct

Keith: She has the authority to tell you to resign as IG?

IG: your honour, even you as a

Keith: No, don’t say even me

IG: she has, as a citizen of Zambia, she is entitled

Keith: But IG, surely, you agree with me that the time Mumbi Phiri was talking about that issue, there was no ID1 don’t you agree with me?

IG: the incident was already there

Keith: No, I am talking about ID1, there was no ID1

IG: correct

Keith: I want to show you that you are not being sincere

IG: it is on record

Keith: You were given options, resign or arrest and charge with treason. Of the two, which one happened?

IG: she never gave me any option

Keith: That’s not my question. Okay if you do not want to tie it to Mumbi Phiri, we will go general. Other activists say you either resign or you arrest, Wright Musoma, Kapoma, they gave you options. Which of the two options happened?

IG: I acted professionally

Keith: (repeats question) okay I will put it in form of an answer. Of the two options, only one happened and what happened was that you arrested Hakainde Hichilema and charged him for treason not so?

IG: yes

Keith: you love your job, you don’t want to leave it right?

IG: that’s why I have served for 32 years

Keith: And you don’t want to resign from it right?

IG: not on unfounded grounds

Keith: No, I am not talking about the grounds

IG: I wouldn’t resign, I love it

Keith: so even Wright Musoma called you

IG: no

Keith: Kapoma?

IG: no

Keith: You said numerous people called you. And it is a fact that throughout your evidence in chief, you did not tell the court what your phone number is

IG: your honour, I can avail it now

Keith: No, I don’t need it, we will not give the state room to reexamine. The answer is that you did not

IG: I did not

Keith: And therefore there is no documentary evidence in this court that numerous people called you correct?

IG: unless an investigation is conducted your honour

Keith: there is no documentary evidence

IG: there is no documentary evidence, I am a witness of fact

Keith: Did Mr Donald Chanda call you

IG: not at all

Keith: my last question, it will be an appropriate time to adjourn now, you said you don’t remember the people who called you but they were numerous. So, we will ask for an adjournment so that at the next sitting, come with a list of the people who called you. You can write the names so that you don’t forget so that you come and tell us the names of the numerous people who called you because it is relevant to the charge

IG: your honour I can’t

Keith: it is not a question. I have told you to come with a list of names

IG: it is not possible

Magistrate: It is not a question. If you can remember, you can write and bring

Court adjourns to next day.

         

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